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To buy or what to buy that is the question


Ronnie

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Hi guys, we are just preparing to do a lot of investigation and thought processes for our home away from home. We are selling our house in Tassie and then retiring in a coupleof years time and in between still working to buy a Kedron 21ft van with full ensuite and a car. We have a 80 series Landcruiser 1998 model at the moment and looking at fitting a turbo to it. However, after reading a lot of forum Q & A it is looking like our 4x4 is not going to cut it. We are getting the van first and then looking at the car to suit :rolleyes: Has anyone got any ideas for us?

Thanks for listening and appreciate any help with this.

Ronnie :)

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Hi Ronnie

It may depend on what model Kedron you buy (TopEnder, ATV or XC). We have a 21' TopEnder with full ensuite with ATM of 3.500kg, which is the same maximum towing limit of our 2005 Landcruiser 100 turbodiesel. The ATV and XC models are not as heavy as the TE. So, we're right on the max weight limit for both the van and the car.

My suggestion (others may disagree) is that IDEALLY you'd go with a lighter model Kedron (ATV or XC) if you want to tow with a Landcruiser, or else go to a slightly larger tow vehicle if you go with the 21' TopEnder - perhaps a GMC or Ford F-Series ute?

However, many owners have the same rig as we do and we're very pleased with our combination, which tows extremely well and returns around 18-25 litres/100km depending on road conditions. We just have to watch our caravan payload weight very carefully to stay within the 3,500kg limit when fully loaded.

Hope this is helpful. We love our van and wish you well with your selections.

Best regards, Andrew.

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Hi Ronnie,

I'm no expert on Toyota's, however your question jogged my memory of extensive research I did two years ago when I was having a similar problem with my patrol.

Your 1998 80 series would appear to one of the last 80 series manufactured with the 100 series being released March 1998, the 80 series has a braked towing capacity of 2500kg with the 100 series being upgraded to 3500kg.

You are going to be hard pressed to even get a cross country that will fit within the limitations of the towing capacity of your 80 series.

It may be prudent to look at your vehicle upgrade sooner rather than later.

I solved the problem with a suspension, wheel and tyre upgrade, which specked the vehicle comparitivly to a 4.2 GU patrol which has a 3500kg towing capacity, then had the vehicle re-engineered to 3500kg. I have made this process sound very simple, but it wasnt. I doubt you would be lucky enough to be able to do the same as there are considerable differences between the 80 and 100 series.

Regards,

John

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Hi Ronnie,

Andrew & John have both made very good points... to which I agree.

A 21ft (internal) Kedron is a BIG van.... do you need a van that size?

There are a few threads on this site re tow vehicles, van layouts & general information about Kedron, when you have a few moments make a cuppa & sit down a have a read :-)

You will find this site to freqented my many like minded people who generally are so ever willing to share their knowledge & experiances of owning a Kedron..... welcome to the group! :D

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Hi Ronnie,

The other contributors have made good points.

Our first van was a 21ft ATV cabin on a TE chassis. It had a Tare weight of 3140Kg. We towed it with a 100 series LC TD which had had a considerable suspension upgrade and I subsequently fitted a 3" exhaust. I was reluctant to chip it. The Tare weight was such that after loading for a trip, it was impossible to keep the weight legal or even, possibly of more importance, safe. The LC towed it well enough but it had to be 'driven' all the time and at the end of a day's towing I was fatigued to say the least. The 21 footer was a big van and, IMHO, too big for a touring van. May be different if you're living in it but then consideration must be given to getting a much bigger tug - GMC/Ford.

We then downsized to a 19ft ATV (Tare 2840) and upgraded the tug to a 200 series LC. What a happy combination! Even so, we are extremely 'weight conscious' and careful with what we pack into the van. Somebody once told us that they never pack anything unless it has two uses... Works for us.

Having said this, I have seen 21ft TEs on the road and have been amazed, no, REALLY amazed to find their Tare was in the 2800Kg region or even less, in one instance. Go figure.

Cheers, Brian

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I would have to support Brian's recommendation of a 19 foot ATV paired with a Landcruiser. If I'd been buying a new Kedron that's what I'd have ordered. Rather than wait 14+ months for a newie I bought an almost new 21 foot TE which became available. It is a big van and our Tare is 2,960kg. I put it fully loaded on the weighbridge just last week and it came in at 3,540kg. 300kg of this is water so I have plenty of room to move, its just a nuisance that you can mitigate with a lighter van (ATV) and still have all the Kedron features and comforts.

Regards, Andrew

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Hi Ronnie

We currently tow our 21ft TE with a Land Rover Disco4 (3500kg tow) and it tows it brilliantly but the weight factor of a big van is a concern for me. We are averaging 16.5lts/100 in fuel with this vehicle but as I said the weight is concerning me enough for us that we are currently looking into a Chev Silverado extra cab (4500kg tow) which is around the same price as the Disco It will be an interesting exercise for you to decide which way to go but saying that I wouldn't give up the TE for quids.

Cheers

Merv

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Hello Ronnie,

Mate all the info and concerns that you have received is correct and very real regarding the weight of the big van. You have to reside yourself to the fact that your 80 series will not cut the mustard with or without the turbo and you will regret purchasing any genuine large off road van if you were to keep the 80 series as they are all plagued with weight issues.

It is personal choice on what vehicle you decide to go with, but dont choose anything with less than a 3500kg tow capacity otherwise the van will dictate the vehicle.

You will get away with a 21ft Kedron and a 3500kg tow capacity vehicle if you dont fill the water tanks or you only load it very lightly for something like a short holiday. Where you will come unstuck is when you want to do the big long term trip or the great outback adventure and to have to start carrying tools, spares, extra fuel, water etc …………….. This I have learnt from experience.

Now I am a firm believer that if you are not living on the edge ………………………. You are taking up too much room except for when it comes to the weight issue. I believe if you run everything on the edge of their limits ……………… you will come unstuck sooner than later, hence I purchased the GMC and I have to say, it has made travelling and towing soooo much more pleasurable and relaxing knowing you are well within the weight limits and have room and power to burn.

Think before you leap otherwise you will end up on the site complaining about all the weight issues you have with the heavy van.

Happy pondering

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Hi Ronnie

Be very careful when considering the size of a van and what weight you might be asking you vehicle to tow as sales weights can be a long way out from actual weigh bridge weights.

The only way to know what your vehicle is required to tow is to know the weight of a caravan and to get a weigh bridge ticket for the van at ex-works and that is not necessarily the plated tare weight then add your expected load which can be anywhere between 500kg at the lightest up to 800kg or more.

My 17ft XC2 was plated at 2250kg tare and 2750kg ATM and when loaded with 500kg load the weigh bridge showed just under 3100kg.

A same size ATV is likely to weigh in at 250 -300kg more and a TE another 100 -200 kg again all depending on your list of extras and the weight of a 21footer ask owners on this site who have dared to put their loaded van over a weigh bridge.

Please do not get carried away with the size until you have fully considered all aspects as others have advised.

Cheers

John

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Hi guys, we are just preparing to do a lot of investigation and thought processes for our home away from home. We are selling our house in Tassie and then retiring in a coupleof years time and in between still working to buy a Kedron 21ft van with full ensuite and a car. We have a 80 series Landcruiser 1998 model at the moment and looking at fitting a turbo to it. However, after reading a lot of forum Q & A it is looking like our 4x4 is not going to cut it. We are getting the van first and then looking at the car to suit :rolleyes: Has anyone got any ideas for us?

Thanks for listening and appreciate any help with this.

Ronnie :)

Hi Ronnie

What part of Tassie are you in? We are near Hobart and have a 21ft Top Ender with full ensuite if you are interested in having a look. We did have a 200 Series Landcruiser but have upgraded to a Chevy Silverado to pull it and everything else Craig decides to take!!!!!

Regards

Kate

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Hi Ronnie

I have been watching this thread with interest and feel that I can now add to it.

I believe that the 21' Top Ender is an excellent choice of van if you use it for what it is intended for. If you aren't really going to take it through the rough and tumble, out-of-the-way places, then perhaps the Top Ender is overkill. As you would be aware, weight is everything and in my experience, weight is only good in steamrollers. There is no doubt that your 80 series would struggle with a fully laden Top Ender.

Here's the rub, whilst the big (21') Top Enders roll out of the factory placarded at around 2850 Kg empty, they are weighed without water in the tanks, with only one gas bottle filled and the generator not in its cubby (and without a 20 litre gerry can of fuel in the equation). When these things are taken into consideration, your discretionary load becomes critical and, if you are like us, you'll find yourself overweight. This leaves you with two options: Lose that weight or have the van legally upgraded to, say, 4 tonne.

If you lose the weight, your choice of tugs can include LC 200 series or Land Rover Discovery 3 or 4 vehicles, along with those mentioned in the paragraph below. We run a Disco 4 and get similar fuel consumption figures as Merv and Di do (see post above), averaging 15.7L/100 Km over all-time. Our vehicle tows the van with ease, but the van brakes need to be adjusted perfectly at all times in order to stop the bugger properly. Others can (and have, I noticed) given you info on the LC 200 vehicle.

If you have the van's placarded weight upgraded, then you can look at things like the Chev Silverado, Ford Effies, Iveco trucks etc. You will never see fuel economy the likes of what you can expect from, say, the Disco. You will, however, be able to tow and stop a 21' TE with greater ease. This ease will come at the cost of sacrificing true 4WD capabilities and having a much larger vehicle to park when doing the shopping. (Don't laugh, I've watched people trying to park these vehicles in what would normally be an easy parking space - and they do have trouble.)

We chose to lose the weight from the van so that we could continue using Land Rover Discovery vehicles. We didn't want to sacrifice the true 4WD'ing capabilities that we have now and have needed at some of the places we have visited. Losing weight involved: Ditching the generator; moving the batteries to a place behind the axles and replacing them with expensive, lighter, Lithium batteries; leaving the bikes at home and removing the bike rack; constantly managing the variable load such as clothing, foodstuffs etc.

In summary, I would say to you that you should think very hard about whether or not the TE is the Kedron model for you. A lighter model may save you some of the anguish when dealing with the question of the tug to pull it with. If your heart is set on the TE, you will need to monitor your van's weight carefully (or upgrade) and the choice of tug is more critical - the 80 series will definitely have to go.

Cheers

Russ

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Hi Ronnie

I Took ownership of a 21ft Topender with ensuite back in aug 2011 and was towing it with a nissan 4.2 turbo diesel which had no problems pulling it. After reading some other stories on this forum regarding weights etc I decided to put the trusty patrol over a weighbridge fully fueled and ready for a trip minus the wife the caravan and me and it was 20 kgs off max weight ouch! so what to do, could spend upwards of 3 grand upgrading the suspension or look for a new tug. decided to look at a new tug and after looking at 200 series and disco,s etc but thought I would always be struggling with the weights so had a good look at the next best ones, F250, Dodge Ram & chev silverado(GMC) .Although I liked the look of the Dodge Ram I Settled for Silverado 2500HD crew cab because of better fuel, more power and bigger brakes.Also at time of delivery it was 36kilos over 4.5 ton so had it derated to 4.5 so it can be driven on a car licence and my better half can also drive it. I want to be able to take it most places so I fitted bull bar,winch canopy and along range fuel tank to finish it off. It tows the van beautiful, getting around 19.6 liters per hundred and on the highway will sit on 100 ks all day and plenty in reserve for overtaking trucks if needed. A couple of points, it is bigger than the toyos etc and it might get scratches out in the bush but thats what 4wds are for,and also as far as shopping centers go I tend to park as far from the front doors as possible there is always plenty of room, I even do that with the Mrs little X-Trail just to stay away from the ferrals who like opening doors or pushing trollys into your car. Just to finish off,we went away in January with our daughter her husband and 2 grand kids who were staying in an onsite van so our car and van was packed to the roofs, the van had all water tanks full plus gas bottles & jerry cans full,yammy generator on board bbq ,enough food for 6,engle fridge and freezer packed to the brim plus 2 x 40 liter engles inside of van full of the drinks and the chev was loaded with my normal tools and recovery gear plus 6 bikes and 216 liters of fuel remenbering the bull bar winch and canopy I put the whole unit over the public weigh bridge and was very happy with the weights . Front axle 2.100kgs , rear axle 2.250kgs and the van was 3.540kgs all up 7.890kgs. After taking delivery of the chev Tom at Kedron was quit happy to rerate the van from 3.5 to 3.90kgs so as you see I am very happy with the whole package and would not go back. So do your home work, everybody is different and its what suits them that matters. You won't go wrong with a Kedron its just which tug you like.

All the best Kakadu (Tony)

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G'day Ronnie,

We started out in the same situation as you however, we had the after market turbo fitted to our 1997, 80 series Landcruiser about 7 or 8 years ago.

We purchased a new 20 foot ATV in 2009 and have never had a problem towing the van. I have just purchased a 76 series V8 turbo diesel wagon which we will be towing the van for the first time this Easter. Our next choice of van would be the XC, as I agree with what Darryl has said in that the Cross Country would be suitable for any of the off road tracks we plan to visit. The 80 Series is now parked up in the shed and will remain there until the new cruiser proves itself! Even then, I would be reluctant to get rid of the old girl!

Pete

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  • 3 weeks later...

My Xc3 21' with full ensuite has an empty weight of 2700kg, and a plated fully loaded weight of 3500kg, giving 800kg of useable weight. It tows beautifully, and is plenty strong enough.

I think this is the future for Kedron.

John

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you so much guys for all your input it has given my husband and I a lot to talk about. It is such a big decision that gathering as much information from experienced travellers is very helpful. It is wonderful to have so many people who like to share their experiences :) Thanks once again. :)

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  • 2 years later...

Hello we are thinking on buying a 2005 Kedron Top Ender, Internal length 17feet. Tare weight 2710. Would a Toyota Landcruiser 100 turbo 6 be good as a tug for it. Rocket

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Hi Rocket

In 2005 the 100 series turbo diesel was the tow vehicle of choice for Kedron vans. I'm still driving a 2005 100 series TD with our 19'6" internal TE and it does a great job. I would suggest you consider upgrading with a snorkel, a good quality DP chip (such as Steinbauer or Taipan) and a 3 inch mandrel bent exhaust. These together will give you around 25% more towing power at around the same fuel consumption. I also personally prefer an automatic transmission, always towing in 4th gear, but many others have towed successfully with manuals. We've never had a breakdown with our Toyota and their service network in outback areas is second to none. Enjoy your TE. Kedron and Toyota are a great combination.

Andrew

 

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G`Day Rocket. We have been towing a 3.4 tonne ATV all over Australia for 8 yrs.with a 2002 100 series T/D. It has a DP chip and 3 inch Beaudesert exhaust .Works for us and has been extremely reliable. As Andrew said Kedron & Toyota ,great combo. :)

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LOL ................. Rick,

 

The guys at Kedron would say "Kedron & Toyota ,great combo". I would too if I had a sweet heart deal with Toyota.

 

I find it very funny that after watching all their DVD's, I have never seen them towing a "Fully Loaded" 21 foot TE or any other 21 foot van. Actually I have never seen them tow any van "fully loaded".

 

I know many people do and that is a personal choice..................... just keep it legal.

 

P.S: Thanks Rick & Lea for you hospitality. It was fantastic to catch up with you guys. Have a great xmas and new year

 

Steve & Kez

 

 

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