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Solar,battery,compressor fridge


Ian and Kathleen

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Hi just researching the standard Kedron setup for 215/230 L compressor fridge of 3 x 120 aH batteries and 3 x 140 A Kyocera solar panels. My question is - does this system work in most circumstnces? How many days of rainy cloudy weather in warm climate till you get down below 50% SOC for the three batteries?

I am really only asking the question after reading that 250 A solar per 100 aH battery is ideal.

Furthermore has anyone ever had Kedron instal the batteries under the dinette seating (which is often a wasted space)?

Any other suggestions would be welcome

Regards,

Ian

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Hi Ian,

Like your idea about repositioning the batteries makes a lot of sense reducing the weight on the draw bar... will be interested to hear if they (the factory) will do it for you.

I have three batteries with three panels & have a Vitrofrigio (fridge) installed & have converted all possible lighting to LED with careful use of battery power, we can easily last three days with out pulling the genny out & topping up the batteries.

At 50% SOC as you mention the batteries would be technically FLAT

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Hi Ian

In our ATV we have four 140 watt and one 75 watt solar panels (635 watts total) and three 120 amp batteries (360 amps total). Our normal usage (lights, water pumps, compressor fridge, sat TV etc) is between 130 to 140 amps per day. As you can see by these figures, we need to put that power back into the batteries every day. In a normal day in Queensland we can usually do this. But there are circumstances we can't control ie clouds, short winter days, and the occasional tree that might block a bit of sun. In addition to the solar panels, we can charge the batteries via a 40 amp 240 volt charger on mains power or via our generator; we also have a 40 amp DC to DC charger. If there aren't many people around in a free camp, we usually run the gene for an hour while having breakfast, so we can use the toaster and to put a quick 40 amps or so into the batteries. We rarely let our batteries drop below 60 percent.

The theoretical figure on the ratio of solar panel watts to battery amps might be impractical to implement as there may not be enough roof area on your van, bearing in mind the area taken up by hatches, aircon etc.

Putting the batteries under the dinette seats sounds good, but if it were a solution, I'm sure Kedron would have done it. The batteries in the boot is an important factor in providing a ball weight of around 10 percentage of the van. If you move the batteries, you need to compensate for that weight being removed from the ball weight. By putting extra 'stuff' on the draw bar to compensate the repositioning of the batteries could result in the van exceeding its ATM.

Hope this helps in some small way.

Cheers

Pete

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Hi Ian

In our ATV we have four 140 watt and one 75 watt solar panels (635 watts total) and three 120 amp batteries (360 amps total). Our normal usage (lights, water pumps, compressor fridge, sat TV etc) is between 130 to 140 amps per day. As you can see by these figures, we need to put that power back into the batteries every day. In a normal day in Queensland we can usually do this. But there are circumstances we can't control ie clouds, short winter days, and the occasional tree that might block a bit of sun. In addition to the solar panels, we can charge the batteries via a 40 amp 240 volt charger on mains power or via our generator; we also have a 40 amp DC to DC charger. If there aren't many people around in a free camp, we usually run the gene for an hour while having breakfast, so we can use the toaster and to put a quick 40 amps or so into the batteries. We rarely let our batteries drop below 60 percent.

The theoretical figure on the ratio of solar panel watts to battery amps might be impractical to implement as there may not be enough roof area on your van, bearing in mind the area taken up by hatches, aircon etc.

Putting the batteries under the dinette seats sounds good, but if it were a solution, I'm sure Kedron would have done it. The batteries in the boot is an important factor in providing a ball weight of around 10 percentage of the van. If you move the batteries, you need to compensate for that weight being removed from the ball weight. By putting extra 'stuff' on the draw bar to compensate the repositioning of the batteries could result in the van exceeding its ATM.

Hope this helps in some small way.

Cheers

Pete

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Thanks Pete,

130-140 Amps per day usage is a bit scary. I have a 40 A DC-DC charger but sounds like the gennie will get a bit of use. I suppose I will get the larger smart charger say 60 A as well. I understand about the ball weight and realise if you take out 3 x 35 kg batteries from the boot to over the axles, you'd probably need a bigger boot to fill up with gear to compensate! Cheers

Ian

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Good timing this post.

We are also trying to deal with this issue at the moment .

Our topender has 3 110 amp batteries and 3 120 w panels and find that we have to very careful with our power consumption .

I mean turning on only one led light at a time ,maybe 3 hrs tv watching and using the diesel heater sparingly

If we live this way the battery level in the morning at around 8 is somewhere between 12.2-12.5 and Soc 75-83 persent this is ok but I am constantly worried and sending the mrs around the bend checking checking and rechecking !!! :wub:

So I have contacted the victron service agent in Perth and he suggested to install another 120 w panel on the roof.The only clear section we have is the front where it slopes up . He also suggested to increase the wiring diameter to prevent voltage drop .

Has any body out there installed a panel on this part of the roof?

I must also add that we travel mainly in the south coast of Western Australia were the sun is not that helpfull and we also have a 70 amp charger which works a treat.

Sorry Ian not trying to take over your post

John

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Good timing this post.

We are also trying to deal with this issue at the moment .

Our topender has 3 110 amp batteries and 3 120 w panels and find that we have to very careful with our power consumption .

I mean turning on only one led light at a time ,maybe 3 hrs tv watching and using the diesel heater sparingly

If we live this way the battery level in the morning at around 8 is somewhere between 12.2-12.5 and Soc 75-83 persent this is ok but I am constantly worried and sending the mrs around the bend checking checking and rechecking !!! :wub:

So I have contacted the victron service agent in Perth and he suggested to install another 120 w panel on the roof.The only clear section we have is the front where it slopes up . He also suggested to increase the wiring diameter to prevent voltage drop .

Has any body out there installed a panel on this part of the roof?

I must also add that we travel mainly in the south coast of Western Australia were the sun is not that helpfull and we also have a 70 amp charger which works a treat.

Sorry Ian not trying to take over your post

John

John & Jo,

We have a Topender which originally had 3 panels & on the side where there was only 1 panel I slide this one back to just clear the TV Antenna & put bent like a flat z 2 pieces alum silicone to roof in front of this & mounted extra panel here & wired it into one of original panels & works just great. We run the standard Fridge /freezer as well as a 60lt waeco as a freezer,sat.TV & Recording box & have been in bush camping for up to 6 weeks,& usually run the generator approx. every 10 days to top batterys right up.Our time was spent around Laverton & North. Hope this helps you.

Regards Neville & Kay.

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John & Jo,

We have a Topender which originally had 3 panels & on the side where there was only 1 panel I slide this one back to just clear the TV Antenna & put bent like a flat z 2 pieces alum silicone to roof in front of this & mounted extra panel here & wired it into one of original panels & works just great. We run the standard Fridge /freezer as well as a 60lt waeco as a freezer,sat.TV & Recording box & have been in bush camping for up to 6 weeks,& usually run the generator approx. every 10 days to top batterys right up.Our time was spent around Laverton & North. Hope this helps you.

Regards Neville & Kay.

Thanks Neville we have no spare space on flat part of the roof with all the extra stuff including auto sat dish so it can only go up front . I spoke to Tom at the factory and he said I may have problems with stones flicking up but we have been on many gravel roads with no stone damage to front of van so we'll see . Did you install one extra panel ?

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Thanks Neville we have no spare space on flat part of the roof with all the extra stuff including auto sat dish so it can only go up front . I spoke to Tom at the factory and he said I may have problems with stones flicking up but we have been on many gravel roads with no stone damage to front of van so we'll see . Did you install one extra panel ?

Hi John

We had Kedron a 75 watt solar panel fitted in front of the aircon during the build. Shortly after we had them remove the Wynguard TV antenna and fit the 4th 140 watt panel. We always use the automatic roof mounted sat TV. That's how we found the roof space for all our panels.

Cheers

Pete

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Hi John

We had Kedron a 75 watt solar panel fitted in front of the aircon during the build. Shortly after we had them remove the Wynguard TV antenna and fit the 4th 140 watt panel. We always use the automatic roof mounted sat TV. That's how we found the roof space for all our panels.

Cheers

Pete

Hi Pete that's a great idea ,although we haven't used our Wyngard for ages I would hesitate to remove it at this stage .I will keep this in mind .

Thanks John

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Good timing this post.

We are also trying to deal with this issue at the moment .

Our topender has 3 110 amp batteries and 3 120 w panels and find that we have to very careful with our power consumption .

I mean turning on only one led light at a time ,maybe 3 hrs tv watching and using the diesel heater sparingly

If we live this way the battery level in the morning at around 8 is somewhere between 12.2-12.5 and Soc 75-83 persent this is ok but I am constantly worried and sending the mrs around the bend checking checking and rechecking !!! :wub:

So I have contacted the victron service agent in Perth and he suggested to install another 120 w panel on the roof.The only clear section we have is the front where it slopes up . He also suggested to increase the wiring diameter to prevent voltage drop .

Has any body out there installed a panel on this part of the roof?

I must also add that we travel mainly in the south coast of Western Australia were the sun is not that helpfull and we also have a 70 amp charger which works a treat.

Sorry Ian not trying to take over your post

John

I removed he winegard and installed the sat dish in that location.

We had 4 x 130W panels factory installed and 480AH of AGM.

We couldn't keep up with that.

I installed another 3 x 80W panels as that is what fitted best with the remaining real estate - 2 on the sloping part front each side of the Heki hatch and the 3rd between the 2 factory panels in front of the AC. This sorted the issue out and we travelled for 6 months without having to plug in, unless we were under trees.

John,

If you are struggling now with 3 batteries, I suggest you not only need to increase your solar capacity but also your battery capacity. The solar will help make sure it is charged every day (and earlier) but if you are fully charged early then extra solar will not fix the issue.

Best way to increase battery capacity is going with LiFePO4. Much lighter and you can draw more out of the batteries. With AGM, you should not take your batteries below 50% SOC, Li you can go down to 10%, and right down to this level you will still have 12.9/13v, so your inverter will also be happier. Anyone that notices their inverter doesn't work well boiling the kettle in the morning but is ok when the batteries are full, should consider this.

Our new van has 700AH of Li and 1200W of solar - Jane cooked a lasagne in the electric convention microwave oven last night - 30 minutes at 80C - it used 30AH. Boiled the kettle, used the coffee maker this morning, no trouble, so this is quite do-able. And she did a few loads of washing yesterday (hot). We haven't plugged in since leaving home 3 weeks ago, and don't intend to. This system is supporting 2 fridges and a freezer, and I charge the 200AH in the truck from the van batteries every 5-7 days.

Our SOC this morning is 71% and battery is at 13.1v

The 700AH of batteries has a usable capacity of 80% = 660AH.

480AH of AGM has a usable capacity of 240AH.

400AH of Li has a usable capacity of 320AH - I would suggest going with 400AH of Li for most.

Weight of 4 x 120AH of AGM = 4 x 32kg = 128kg.

Weight of 400AH of Li = 54kg.

Cost is the biggest issue but for usable AH capacity, there isn't much difference. Battery prices only:

Cost of 400AH of Li (320AH usable) = $2200

Cost of 640AH of AGM (320AH usable) = 5.3 x 120AH = 5 x 330 = $1760 - and not practical = weight is 190kg!

NB: These are not what Kedron charges.

If you are having a new build, this really is a no brainer - Li is the only way to go.

Kedron will have problems getting 1200W of solar on the roof, but you can get 760W if it is laid out well. I would suggest 400AH of Li and I believe Kedron can accommodate this.

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Hi Ian,

Just for a different perspective, whilst I have installed 360A/H of Lithium batteries, it is still a job to get them to 100% every day, which they prefer apparently. I purchased a 120W portable solar panel to run our ARB fridge when tenting. I have found that when it's anderson plug is plugged into the van anderson plug which usually plugs into the car, it happily charges the van batteries along with the 4 panels on the roof. The bonus is that it can be turned to get the full benefit of the sun during the day whilst the roofmounted panels spend a fair bit of time in the shade of the airconditioner, unless I am lucky enough to park east/west. I should also add that it pumps in more power on average than the individual roof panels because I am too lazy to get up to clean them!!

Regards

Chris

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Hi Ian,

Just for a different perspective, whilst I have installed 360A/H of Lithium batteries, it is still a job to get them to 100% every day, which they prefer apparently. I purchased a 120W portable solar panel to run our ARB fridge when tenting. I have found that when it's anderson plug is plugged into the van anderson plug which usually plugs into the car, it happily charges the van batteries along with the 4 panels on the roof. The bonus is that it can be turned to get the full benefit of the sun during the day whilst the roofmounted panels spend a fair bit of time in the shade of the airconditioner, unless I am lucky enough to park east/west. I should also add that it pumps in more power on average than the individual roof panels because I am too lazy to get up to clean them!!

Regards

Chris

Thanks Chris,

With the lithium batteries what did they cost? Supplier? It sounds like a portable 150-200 W panel would be a better option than installing another fixed 130-140 W (in place of the TV aerial). And I agree the roof top panels don't open get cleaned regularly.

Cheers,

Ian

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Ian,

I bought them nearly 2 years ago now from EV Power Australia P/L. I see they still sell them. I bought 2 180 A/H ones that come setup as shown in their pics. I also purchased the Battery Management System and Control Unit(necessary, I reckon, if not only for piece of mind, but also for warranty and easy shutdown). Now the bad news, the 2 batteries and BMS from memory were over 3 grand. I remember that I bought a new 60amp Sterling Battery Charger as well which was about $900 delivered and all up it came to just over $4k.

Regards

Chris

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When I changed over from lead-acid AGM batteries to Lithium, I mounted them under the rearmost lounge seat. I bought 4 x 90 AH LiFePO4 batteries and they fitted easily. I reckon I could have mounted at least one more, maybe even two. It was a simple matter to run heavy gauge copper cables from there to the front boot, where I connected the existing infrastructure. The cables are run in class 16 PVC pipe and this protects them well. I can't see why Kedron couldn't do the same in a new build (but they won't :angry:

360 AH runs our 230l Vitfrigio and our 50l car fridge (and not much else) for three days (remembering that you can discharge LiFePO4 batteries by 80% at a pinch) before we have to think about an external charge source. We have 625W of panels which supplies about 35A continuously for about 6 hours per day on clear days, so technically we should regain full charge in two days. A lot of people forget to factor in that the fridges are still drawing current while the batteries are recharging. In our case, with both fridges running it is near enough 8A, leaving 27A to charge the batteries. Thankfully the fridges have a 1:3 duty cycle.

If I had my druthers I would buy at least one more 90AH LiFePO4 cell and two more panels (probably 80W) as I still have enough room for them on the slopey bit at the front. The problem is that I got rid of the AGM batteries because I had weight issues and I don't want to put more weight back into the van, so we have learned to throttle back the car fridge as it only has drinks in it. Our daily use of power can be as much as 200AH if we watch the telly and use both laptops. When it's cloudy the telly and the laptops stay off. When it's sunny we can recover 200AH in a day (just) provided that we get Sun on the panels for 6 hours in the middle of the day and at least one more hour of angled light either side of the 6 hours.

Summary: With AGM batteries you need to regain all the current that you have used each day in a typical Kedron build. You have very little wriggle-room. With a set-up like mine, three days tops with careful rationing of power. Otherwise, it's out with the generator. You will run into weight issues if you cover the roof with panels and add extra batteries. A typical 130W panel weighs around 16Kg. Lithium batteries (90AH) are approx. 15Kg each. Don't even think about adding extra AGM, the weight would kill you.

There is no magic bullet unfortunately.

Cheers

Russ

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