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GVM and tow upgrades

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I have edited my previous post showing pics of our installation. Pete has had a talk to CoupleMate and apparently we have installed our chain holders on the incorrect sides of the A frame. The holders are welded to the frame so the chain is encapsulated. ie the open side of the holder is welded to the A frame not the closed side.

The picture in my previous is how not to do it.

Our holders will need to be ground off. I will have a different type of holder installed as I want to be able to replace the chain if they are damaged.

Cheers

Stu

Edited by Stu and Jean
incorrect supplier

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I slid our 13mm t80 grade chains up the Aframe arms and secured them with high tensile bolts through the arms. This was done on the suggestion of our engineer. The 13mm chains will accept a 3/4 bolt. Our system has now been signed off by our engineer.

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What I did with my Couplemate couplings after I had them installed the incorrect way......

6mm plate welded over can/could be 'easily' removed if chain had to be serviced/replaced

 

Couplemate coupling 004.JPG

Couplemate coupling 005.JPG

Couplemate coupling 007.JPG

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Thanks Tony

Thats what we are doing as well. Like you say it's easier to replace the chain if need be.

cheers

Stu

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Tony, that is really neat welding!

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Thanks Chris,

Yes, I am happy with the end result.

I had a visit from a Qld registered motor vehicle inspector who duly inspected the van and modification and issued an additional compliance plate showing an increased GVM of just shy of 4 tonne. He only charged me $200 which I thought was cheap, considering the 'factory' wanted $300, (plus the trip to Brisbane)

 

Cheers and beers

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Tony, we find the process very different here.  Our engineer issues the plate ( which is being sent to us by mail) and we put it on the van.  Then, armed with relevant paperwork and a photo of said plate on van, we go to a motor vehicle service centre to finalise the rego changes.  It has all been a very stressful process, compounded by several factors which saw the cost of just the engineer balloon out to $750. 

it is all taking ages, heaps of money and a lot of patience.

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I'm still waiting for David Gall to inform me what Kedron are going to do regarding the upgraded chains.

In the meantime I contacted their chassis manufacturer who suggested the following:

purchase from TRANSPARTS :

Bartlet Saftey chain system 

SC62-10F trailer set 

and 

T 809/10-28 link 850mm chain set

The trailer set (a pair ) is to be placed under the A frame /under the tow hitch . He said you will find a 2 mm plate there which needs to be cut away and replaced with a 10 mm plate .

before welding this plate on , we need to heat the cast iron trailer brackets up ,then weld on plate and then weld plate to underside of a frame .

Hope what I have written makes sense took me a while to digest it all , but we still will have to find some solution to fit something to the tow bar as the chains are only 10 mm . 

John

Edited by John and Jo

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I had our van at Vehicle Components recently and there was another van (not A Kedron) there for a service.When I remarked to one of the employees working on our van, that the other van had obviously had a GVM upgrade by virtue of the chain setup, he said that they do that work all the time.

I mention this as food for thought.

Cheers, Bas

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21 hours ago, John and Jo said:

The trailer set (a pair ) is to be placed under the A frame /under the tow hitch . He said you will find a 2 mm plate there which needs to be cut away and replaced with a 10 mm plate .

before welding this plate on , we need to heat the cast iron trailer brackets up ,then weld on plate and then weld plate to underside of a frame .

Hope what I have written makes sense took me a while to digest it all , but we still will have to find some solution to fit something to the tow bar as the chains are only 10 mm . 

Hi John,

Trusting this finds you in good health & spirits.

Trying to fully understand/decifer your post........

I appreciate your in WA and that each state in this great country has different rules & regulations.

I know for a fact that in NSW & Qld, you cannot mount/secure safety chains to the underside of the draw bar (if the van did come away from the tow vehicle the mounts would be ground off dragging on the road)

Trailer Safety Chain Attachment Kits - 13mm System Trailer Side 3

IN NSW & Qld.....THIS setup.....chain mounts under the draw bar is illegal !!!!

 

 

OR are you suggesting modifying the near vertical plate directly under the hitch where the draw bars come together? (which would be 'above' the lowest edge of the draw bar)....if this is what your implying, can I respectively suggest you go back a few posts have a look at my photos (print them off) and take to your engineer for his opinion/feedback. By welding an 8mm plate to the side of the draw bar, then attaching a chain mounting block to that plate, It would be stronger and a LOT cheaper (cost always has to be considered, but never on the point of safety) & possibly more aesthetically pleasing to look at! 

The mount that has been suggested you use (Bartlet Saftey chain system SC62-10F trailer set) I looked up, it has a smaller/less mounting surface area than say the Couplemate CM549 https://www.couplemate.com.au/trailer-parts-shop-caravan-parts-shop/safety-chain-holder/10mm-80g-safety-chain-holder/ so if the 'same' welding process was carried out on the Bartlet & Couplemate blocks the Couplemate would be a lot stronger...more surface area .....more weld. The Couplemate is machined from billet as opposed to the Bartlet which is a casting.

If you do decide to go with the Bartlet mounts, I see that Couplemate sell them cheaper than Transparts, you can also get them on eBay  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Trailer-Safety-Chain-Attachment-Kits-10mm-System-Trailer-Side-/110985427249

 

 

It is a mine field out there, I wish you all the best and a speedy & happy conclusion in your GVM upgrade!

 

CU down the road 

PS.....I know this is Qld reg's.....but it may assist or even heaven forbid, confuse!

Description

10mm 80G Safety Chain Holder suit trailers from 3.5t to 7.2t. All caravans and trailers over 2.5t require two chains.

10mm 80G Safety Chain Holder – 80cm Long. Price is for a pair.

2 x Safety chain holders are required on caravan and trailers and be permanently attached. Chains must terminate in chain holders on the tow bar.

Galvanised Chain and shackles are illegal on all trailers over 3.5t.

Introduction

All new trailers that are presented for licensing must comply with the requirements of Vehicle Standard Bulletin – Building Small Trailers (VSB1). VSB1 summarises the construction requirements for caravans and trailers necessary to meet the Australian Design Rules (ADRs), and trailers built to meet the requirements in this bulletin are accepted as meeting the ADRs.

The chain requirements are specified in ADR 62. VSB1 stipulates that marked safety chain must be used. This particular requirement had been relaxed to some extent when it was difficult to source chain that met the required standards.

As a result, suitable chain is now widely available and this requirement will be enforced for new trailers.

  • Trailers under 2500 kg ATM must be fitted with at least one chain.
  • Trailers over 2500 kg ATM must be fitted with at least two chains.
  • For trailers up to 3500 kgs ATM (steel chain to AS4177)  must comply with Australian Standard.AS4177 Caravan and light trailer towing components – Part 4 Safety chains up to 3500 kg capacity.
  • Trailers over 3.5t Grade 80 safety chain must be used and connected directly onto the chassis via a safety chain holder. Welding is not permitted.

It is essential to remember

  • No chain welding over 2.5t
  • No chain welding below the chassis rails.

Trailers up to 2.5 tonnes ATM must have at least one safety chain complying with AS 4177.4 – 1994 (Trailer and light trailer towing components – Safety chains up to 3.5 tonnes capacity), or as amended from time to time. This standard allows for steel safety chains in accordance with the following:

• up to 1.0 tonne, a chain size of 6.3 mm; • up to 1.6 tonnes, a chain size of 8 mm; • 2.5 tonnes, a chain size of 10 mm.

Trailers over 2.5 and up to 3.5 tonnes ATM must have two safety chains complying with AS 4177.4 – 1994 or as amended from time to time. This standard allows for steel safety chains in accordance with the following:

• up to 3.5 tonnes, 13mm Safety Chain and Holder.

However, trailers of and in excess of 3.5 tonnes ATM, all medium and heavy category pig trailers with rigid drawbars.

Trailers without breakaway brakes and all fixed and rigid pig trailers with a GTM greater than 2.5 tonnes and fitted with automatic pin type couplings, must be fitted with safety chains in accordance with the information contained in AIS Information Sheet 12(b) – Safety Chain Requirements.”

 

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Finally completed our van upgrade, took the paper work to our MVR today and all has been approved. Nice new compliance plate sitting in the front boot. Now just waiting for MV Inspections to contact me re a roadworthy inspection on the Landcruiser GVM and tow upgrade. Was 20th on the list yesterday.

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On 16/04/2017 at 9:09 AM, TonyH said:

Hi John,

Trusting this finds you in good health & spirits.

Trying to fully understand/decifer your post........

I appreciate your in WA and that each state in this great country has different rules & regulations.

I know for a fact that in NSW & Qld, you cannot mount/secure safety chains to the underside of the draw bar (if the van did come away from the tow vehicle the mounts would be ground off dragging on the road)

Trailer Safety Chain Attachment Kits - 13mm System Trailer Side 3

IN NSW & Qld.....THIS setup.....chain mounts under the draw bar is illegal !!!!

 

 

OR are you suggesting modifying the near vertical plate directly under the hitch where the draw bars come together? (which would be 'above' the lowest edge of the draw bar)....if this is what your implying, can I respectively suggest you go back a few posts have a look at my photos (print them off) and take to your engineer for his opinion/feedback. By welding an 8mm plate to the side of the draw bar, then attaching a chain mounting block to that plate, It would be stronger and a LOT cheaper (cost always has to be considered, but never on the point of safety) & possibly more aesthetically pleasing to look at! 

The mount that has been suggested you use (Bartlet Saftey chain system SC62-10F trailer set) I looked up, it has a smaller/less mounting surface area than say the Couplemate CM549 https://www.couplemate.com.au/trailer-parts-shop-caravan-parts-shop/safety-chain-holder/10mm-80g-safety-chain-holder/ so if the 'same' welding process was carried out on the Bartlet & Couplemate blocks the Couplemate would be a lot stronger...more surface area .....more weld. The Couplemate is machined from billet as opposed to the Bartlet which is a casting.

If you do decide to go with the Bartlet mounts, I see that Couplemate sell them cheaper than Transparts, you can also get them on eBay  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Trailer-Safety-Chain-Attachment-Kits-10mm-System-Trailer-Side-/110985427249

 

 

It is a mine field out there, I wish you all the best and a speedy & happy conclusion in your GVM upgrade!

 

CU down the road 

PS.....I know this is Qld reg's.....but it may assist or even heaven forbid, confuse!

Description

10mm 80G Safety Chain Holder suit trailers from 3.5t to 7.2t. All caravans and trailers over 2.5t require two chains.

10mm 80G Safety Chain Holder – 80cm Long. Price is for a pair.

2 x Safety chain holders are required on caravan and trailers and be permanently attached. Chains must terminate in chain holders on the tow bar.

Galvanised Chain and shackles are illegal on all trailers over 3.5t.

Introduction

All new trailers that are presented for licensing must comply with the requirements of Vehicle Standard Bulletin – Building Small Trailers (VSB1). VSB1 summarises the construction requirements for caravans and trailers necessary to meet the Australian Design Rules (ADRs), and trailers built to meet the requirements in this bulletin are accepted as meeting the ADRs.

The chain requirements are specified in ADR 62. VSB1 stipulates that marked safety chain must be used. This particular requirement had been relaxed to some extent when it was difficult to source chain that met the required standards.

As a result, suitable chain is now widely available and this requirement will be enforced for new trailers.

  • Trailers under 2500 kg ATM must be fitted with at least one chain.
  • Trailers over 2500 kg ATM must be fitted with at least two chains.
  • For trailers up to 3500 kgs ATM (steel chain to AS4177)  must comply with Australian Standard.AS4177 Caravan and light trailer towing components – Part 4 Safety chains up to 3500 kg capacity.
  • Trailers over 3.5t Grade 80 safety chain must be used and connected directly onto the chassis via a safety chain holder. Welding is not permitted.

It is essential to remember

  • No chain welding over 2.5t
  • No chain welding below the chassis rails.

Trailers up to 2.5 tonnes ATM must have at least one safety chain complying with AS 4177.4 – 1994 (Trailer and light trailer towing components – Safety chains up to 3.5 tonnes capacity), or as amended from time to time. This standard allows for steel safety chains in accordance with the following:

• up to 1.0 tonne, a chain size of 6.3 mm; • up to 1.6 tonnes, a chain size of 8 mm; • 2.5 tonnes, a chain size of 10 mm.

Trailers over 2.5 and up to 3.5 tonnes ATM must have two safety chains complying with AS 4177.4 – 1994 or as amended from time to time. This standard allows for steel safety chains in accordance with the following:

• up to 3.5 tonnes, 13mm Safety Chain and Holder.

However, trailers of and in excess of 3.5 tonnes ATM, all medium and heavy category pig trailers with rigid drawbars.

Trailers without breakaway brakes and all fixed and rigid pig trailers with a GTM greater than 2.5 tonnes and fitted with automatic pin type couplings, must be fitted with safety chains in accordance with the information contained in AIS Information Sheet 12(b) – Safety Chain Requirements.”

 

Thanks Tony for the info here still waiting for David must be away I think, your set up looks good and probably better than what was suggested to me . 

I just wish we would all use the same chains ect that way all Kedron's would be the same and then make things easier to explain  at resale.

John 

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On 16/03/2017 at 11:05 AM, John and Jo said:

That sounds neat but does that mean that by useing 2 x 2.5 t chains you total 5 t ? 

I was told we need 2 x5 t chains .

John 

 

No, that previous advice was upgraded when we realised the ratings of the chains was wrong.  Ours are now at least 5 tonne each.  They are two by 13 mm, grade 80.  ( The supplier had previously given us the wrong weight rated chains, and due to both eagle eyes on this forum, as well as picked up by our engineer, this was quickly realised).

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On 14/04/2017 at 9:35 AM, TonyH said:

What I did with my Couplemate couplings after I had them installed the incorrect way......

6mm plate welded over can/could be 'easily' removed if chain had to be serviced/replaced

 

Couplemate coupling 004.JPG

Couplemate coupling 005.JPG

Couplemate coupling 007.JPG

Tony, If you needed to replace the chain for any reason, instead of grinding off the plate why not cut the chain and insert a set of hammerlocks to rejoin new hi tensile chain ?

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Yes.....that would work.....great thinking!

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   Our car and van upgrade is now complete and signed off by Transport SA, van ATM 4t, Landcruiser GVM 3.8t, tow 4t and CVM 7.8t. Ready for travel.

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Sweet,............... you must be relieved that this episode is finally over!

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11 minutes ago, TonyH said:

Sweet,............... you must be relieved that this episode is finally over!

 

Tony, you would not believe how relieved we are!  It has all taken so long and cost so much, with various twists and turns along the way.  It would be so good if you could simply take the van and car to an engineer, give them a fistfuls of dollars and have them undertake the whole process.  It has meant numerous trips to the city ( twice with a van on the back) and money going out at every step.  Even today, having the final roadworthiness inspection and approval of the upgrade, we had to pay another $255....  

 

But now we are legal, and have peace of mind.

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Not wanting to sound too negative here, but there's no way I'd be towing a heavy (+ 3700kg) with a lc200, no matter what the gvm upgrade. If things go wrong, even having to evade or stop quickly, I reckon it's game on.

lc200 is a great vehicle ( I've owned several and have one presently), but prefer towing my 22'6 TE ( 4t rated) with a us truck. Mine van is usually around 3800kg with full tanks. We travel fairly light re clothing etc.

but for anything below 3500kg, the 200 is a really great vehicle.

I can understand owners getting the GVM upgrade just to be on the safe side if inspected.

safe travels everyone.

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Chris, what did the upgrade cost roughly including the Engineers report?

thanks

paul

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Paul, we roughly paid about $10,000 for both van and car.  That was in total.

 

we find the 200 series to be a wonderful towing vehicle and have towed the same weight for more than 8 years with no issues or capability limitations noticeable.  But yes, we try to keep the rig at or below 3500 kgs;  it is just that when carrying water and extra food on longer remote area roads we are highly likely to be over by a bit.  We are conscious of the need to be legal, and I am confident there will be more and more checking in future.

 

Our new lithium system has saved a lot of weight, including there being no need now to carry a generator for most of our trips.

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10K.......Ouch............!  But if that is the price for peace of mind, so be it...

 

Cheers

Merv

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Thanks Chris for your reply.

I like the Li batteries as they save room and weight and mine seem to last pretty well between charges.

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Guess what . Finally got the ATM upgrade completed and approved this morning.

Ended up purchasing the Bartlet system from Transparts in Qld .

Mate ex body builder (trucks) did the weld for me . 

I am relieved it’s all over .Upgrade ATM to 3990  although we will always be lighter than this at least we are always legal . 

Thanks people for the advice and have great Christmas and a safe 2018

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4 hours ago, John and Jo said:

Guess what . Finally got the ATM upgrade completed and approved this morning.

Ended up purchasing the Bartlet system from Transparts in Qld .

Mate ex body builder (trucks) did the weld for me . 

I am relieved it’s all over .Upgrade ATM to 3990  although we will always be lighter than this at least we are always legal . 

Thanks people for the advice and have great Christmas and a safe 2018

 

Well done John and Jo.

 

It's a teedy process isn't it. But, it's nice to be legal.

 

Recently, our ATV for two had its ATM upgrade to 3990kg done at the factory; the staff at Kedron did a great job.

 

If we are stupid enough to load our Kedron up to the new ATM, we haven't learnt anything !!!!!!!!!!!

 

All the best for Christmas, and safe travels in 2018.

 

Pete

 

 

 

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