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Don't Take Your LED Stop/Tail Lamps for Granted


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An LED Stop/Tail, Indicator Story

When I saw light truck LED lamps being installed on our Kedron I was very pleased - well, I thought, there's something I will not have to concern myself with for the life of the van. Not so folks - don't take them for granted.

We recently took the caravan out of our big shed a few days before leaving on a major trip, it makes for easier packing. As we have plenty of space we generally spend at least one night installed in the van to check nothing has been missed and all systems are operating. Over three days there were rain showers off and on but nothing heavy.

On a passing whim I decided to check the operation of the rear lights. To my astonishment no right indicator (orange), one totally failed stop/tail, and a partially failed stop/tail, about half the 64 LEDs were operational.

I removed the failed lamps from the plastic surround. One needs a flat bladed screwdriver to lever the surround away from the lamp and move the lamp outwards, it will then hang on its wires. On close examination I could see fine water droplets inside the lamps and discoloration of the printed circuit boards that carry the LEDs themselves. The construction of these lamps is very high quality - close to a military spec - a moulded outer polycarbonate casing, carrying the PC board with the back sealed with a resin filler, which seals the wire exits. I decided to do some testing of my own. I left the lamps in the sun for an hour then submerged them in a bucket of water. Sure enough water droplets could be seen inside. One lamp had half a teaspoon of water sloshing around in it. Then I left them in the sun again - all sign of water droplets disappeared. On repeating the experiment the same thing happened

Eventually I was able to detect very fine cracks in the corners of the moulded casing. The manufacturer is LED Technologies Pty Ltd who have a comprehensive site at ledautolamps.com.

They manufacture to ISO 9001 standards and claim to use resins and glues which do not crack. The lamps carry a manufacturer's warranty of five years, (van is three years old). I contacted them and was told to return the lamps and if they agreed the product was faulty they would post a replacement. Not the answer one wants to hear on the eve of leaving.

Ashley at the Kedron factory was good enough to replace the faulty lamps and I wired them in and we left on time.

I have since learnt that Bustracker do not use LED stop/tail, indicator lamps. They have stuck to the less expensive but tried and true standards.

Any comments?

Grahame

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Hello Grahame and Wendy,

Judy and I have been in the transport industry for 32 years now and we have converted all our trucks and trailers to LED lights, they are not infallible unfortunately some will fail, especially if the housing is damaged.

I must say though you ask any of our men, which would they rather have bulbs or LEDs ?

LEDs will win out every time.

We do a lot of cartage with road trains out West and up the Cape over very corrugated roads, the small percentage of failures far out way the problems you have with the old bulb holder and bulbs.

We don't use combined tail/blinker/stop lamps, we use single lamps and we carry one blinker and one tail/stop lamp which makes it much cheaper to replace and easier to carry.

We supplied Kedron all the lights that were fitted to our van.

A failure will happen although very rare to say the least.

Remember there are two elements we are dealing with Human and Mechanical one would think we could control them.

Sorry not to be. :laugh:

Stick with the LEDs they use less power, so more power going into your batteries.

Safe travels. :Australia:

Cheers

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"I have since learnt that Bustracker do not use LED stop/tail, indicator lamps. They have stuck to the less expensive but tried and true standards.

Any comments?"

From my observations Bushtracker do not like change and use the excuse of proving it first - eg Dometic windows, new hitches, LED lights, decent external awning light etc etc - all stuff that Kedron and some other manufactures used first and a few months later BT carping on about using a new product as a industry first blah blah blah. :laugh:

Cheers

Darryl

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An LED Stop/Tail, Indicator Story

When I saw light truck LED lamps being installed on our Kedron I was very pleased - well, I thought, there's something I will not have to concern myself with for the life of the van. Not so folks - don't take them for granted.

One needs a flat bladed screwdriver to lever the surround away from the lamp and move the lamp outwards, it will then hang on its wires.

Any comments?

Grahame

Hi Grahame

I have been concerned about ours for another reason ever since our first red dirt run 3 years ago because of the amount of muck that washes out from behind them and never appears to end when cleaning the van.

I have tried to get them off but not continued for fear of breaking them.

Exactly what is the technique with the screw driver as although it has been described over the phone by Kedron it does appear risky without knowing the technique.

Any chance of a photo of where exactly to use the screw driver?

Cheers

John

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Greetings all

We have had to replace the Led Technologies big square tail lights on our 5 year old van three times.

First time by Kedron in the first week two were replaced.

The next was about a year later. after contacting Led Technologies and explaining the problem ( water ingestion in 3) they referred us to a company in Brendale where the lights were replaced ( Rod fitted them).

The last time about six months ago we had another one full of water and they wanted us to take it off and send it to them for evaluation, can you believe that.

Kedron charged me $50 to replace it.

It is not a good reflection on this particular lighting module and I am sad to see that they are still installing them on some model new vans.

As for led's in general we would not use anything else they are great.

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Thanks for your comments people.

John,

I know what you mean - leavering away with a big screwdriver could lead to some expensive replacements. I did have photos of this whole operation, and each failed LED lamp, but have misplaced them on the computer. Over the next couple of days I will take a couple of pics and post a methodology.

Grahame

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I am not a Kedron (or BT) owner, but had a turn section on my offroad van tail/brake/turn LED fail the day before I left on a big trip. Long story short...auto electricians took 1 hour to lever out the dead section which basically stuffed the whole integrated unit. The reason? Sicaflex had been used to seal the hole where the wires came through the van wall to the light unit, and so much had been used that it spread across the back of all 3 sections of the light unit, doing a great job of sticking the light to the aluminium siding of the van. So, the whole unit was damaged beyond repair. After another hour of careful sawing behind the mounting bracket (with a serated kitchen knife blade, as nothing else seemed to work), a replacement combined LED unit was fitted, unfortunately not identical to the original. I would have changed both left and right LED units if not for the hassle - and cost in time - of removing the originals. I wonder how many other vans might encounter the same problem if ever the lights need to be replaced or repaired? I did inform the van manufacturer of this incident, and recommended they not use sicaflex, or if they do, to be very careful how much and where it is applied. My replacement light has been waterproofed with bog standard wet area silicone. Fingers crossed....

Mike

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And here lies the sole reason Silicone is being used on our roofs instead of Sikaflex. :confused:

Imagine if you had trouble with your airconditioner and it had to come out and Sikaflex had been used.

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And here lies the sole reason Silicone is being used on our roofs instead of Sikaflex. :confused:

Imagine if you had trouble with your airconditioner and it had to come out and Sikaflex had been used.

I understood the panel sealing on my XC2 was Sikaflex and the aircon sealing looks to be the same stuff.

Guess I will find out if the aircon has to come out.

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John,

Some pics on how to remove LED lamp sets.

The Sikaflex used when fitting the lamp sets, and mentioned in this thread, does "glue" the lamp into position which can mean a fair bit of force is required to prise the lamp off the back of the van. There is a real risk of chipping the surround. My recomendation is dont take this on unless you have to - when your lamp is blown you have to.

The procedure is in essence to unlock ramped tabs which hold the lamp in the surround. The only thing I have not shown here is the use of a second screwdriver to help prise the lamp out of the surround - required when the Sikaflex has a hold of it.

post-129-1305070778_thumb.jpg

post-129-1305070840_thumb.jpg

post-129-1305071068_thumb.jpg

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John,

Some pics on how to remove LED lamp sets.

The Sikaflex used when fitting the lamp sets, and mentioned in this thread, does "glue" the lamp into position which can mean a fair bit of force is required to prise the lamp off the back of the van. There is a real risk of chipping the surround. My recomendation is dont take this on unless you have to - when your lamp is blown you have to.

The procedure is in essence to unlock ramped tabs which hold the lamp in the surround. The only thing I have not shown here is the use of a second screwdriver to help prise the lamp out of the surround - required when the Sikaflex has a hold of it.

Thanks Grahame

That is essentially what I was trying to do but I recon mine are well and truly stuck.

I dread to think what mess is behind mine considering the amount of muck that came out when washing after dirt road runs.

I have now sealed the black surrounds and lenses with silicon so will just wait for a failure before doing anything else.

Cheers

John

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Hi all.

Twice as previously stated I have changed these less than acceptable lamp assemblies.

Both times I have seen no need to use silicon or Sikaflex. These lamps have an adequate locking mechanism in their mounting surrounds.

Having replaced a few none have ever fallen out nor have they ever leaked again and we do a lot of off road touring and they have been exposed to lotsa vibration.

? why glue them in???????????

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Hi all.

Twice as previously stated I have changed these less than acceptable lamp assemblies.

Both times I have seen no need to use silicon or Sikaflex. These lamps have an adequate locking mechanism in their mounting surrounds.

Having replaced a few none have ever fallen out nor have they ever leaked again and we do a lot of off road touring and they have been exposed to lotsa vibration.

? why glue them in???????????

So were yours not originally held in by any sikaflex or silicon?

Do you not have any concerns about the likely build up of dust/mud/rubbish behind your assemblies?

What build up did you find behind the assemblies you have changed?

Cheers

John

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There was never any sealant used in the original installation apart from where the wiring passes through the skin.

Yes there are great amounts red dust/mud/sticks/leaves that comes out from behind the assemblies when the van is washed. We can live with that.

When I changed the lamps there was a dirt build up but it washed off ok.

As a matter of fact the washed out dirt from the lights was less than that washed out from behind the cracked and bubbled stickers on the van.

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This is all interesting, and thanks for everyone sharing their observations and experiences.

In the last two days, two of our reflector "lights" on the fron of the van have fallen off - presumably somewhere ion the Stuart Highway between Alice and Darwin. Not an issue - easy to replace and fix into place. Maybe we should use Sikaflec...? :laugh:

Chris

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