Lithium Batteries

[mark and maxine]

Has anyone got lithium batteries in their van.

The best price I can find is from sydney at $1595 for 90AH plus delivery,there doesn't seem to be many suppliers in and around Brisbane.

My batteries are 6.5 years old and probably won't last much longer.

Lithium seems to be the way to go but are very exspensive.

There was a yellow battery in a previous post but I can't find them anywhere.

Any info would be greatly appreciated

Thanks a lot

Mark

[TonyH]

G'Day Mark,

Gee $1600 I presume/hope that is for three?.... plus delivery.

At that price & the age of the current (AGM?) batteries why not go that way again..... I assume they have given you good service over the past 6.5 years.... how much longer are you going to have the van?

I just had a thought will your current charger 'work' & be compatable with lithium batteries?

Not trying to be negative.... cheers

[Rod and Mavis]

Hi mark & maxine

If you are in Brissie please have a chat to Springers at Lawnton with regard to Lithiums.

They state that your solar controller and your current battery charger are not compatible with them.

The concept is great but not just yet for mine! It is a massive cost for change over.

Cheers from the Kyd's.

[RickA]

Hi Mark

Reading on other forums I get the impression that you have to change some of your electrical system (Chargers etc.)as well. And this makes it a very expensive exercise .We have put it on our list of "things to buy when we win lottery".

If as you say you have got 6.5 yrs. from your current batteries (hope we do) I would stick with them.

Cheers

Rick

[ATV42]

Hi Mark.

I investigated this path when in Sydney recently. Lithium battery's are extremely expensive, as are most technology advanced items. A Braille lithium battery I looked at was over $3000 but only weighed about 15kg, these are imported from the USA and are used used in many racing yachts to reduce weight.

The dealer I spoke too at Warriwood said a special charger/ regulator has to be used, or the battery could explode!!!!!!

I think the price will come down as time goes on, but I would be very careful of 'cheepies'

Cheers

Peter

[Mrs Lynn Astill]

Hi all,

I am currently waiting for delivery of 2 x 180ah lithium batteries from ev-power in WA. Expensive at $3200 delivered, but the weight saving of 50kg and about 50% more power was hard to pass up as we are planning a year or two away starting early to mid next year. Our van has all Xantrex equipment which appears compatible with the lithium batteries with a few setup changes. I am expecting delivery next Wednesday so will let you know how it goes if you like. Please note that I also purchased their battery management device which is a must.

Regards

Chris

[RussnSue]

Hi

I fitted 4 x 90 AH Lithium (LiFePO4) batteries about three months ago. I got them from EV Works in Perth. They were about $535.00 ea ex GST. I have a Plasmatronics PL-60 Solar regulator which I reprogrammed to charge Lithium batteries properly, so no additional charger was necessary. I have disconnected my 240 Volt charger and will replace it with one that is compatible, at a later time.

My main reason for getting the Litium batteries was the weight saving, but the extra available power certainly doesn't hurt. When you consider that one 90 AH Lithium battery has 72 Ah of available capacity for $570.00 ($7.91 per Amp Hour) and an AGM 120 AH battery has just 48 AH of available capacity for around $400.00 ($8.33 per Amp Hour), then dollars per Amp Hour, there isn't much in it. But....when it come to weight, 15Kg for the Lithium as opposed to 33 Kg for AGM - there is no contest. Life expectancy of well maintained batteries of either type should be about the same.

The figures (above) were obtained using the accepted Depth of Discharge figures for each type of battery: 80% DOD for Lithium and 40% DOD for AGM. You can, of course, discharge lower but it is at the expense of battery life (for both types of battery.)

Cheers

Russ

[Rod and Mavis]

Many thanks Russ

Have been waiting for your report!

[RussnSue]

Many thanks Russ

Have been waiting for your report!

Hi Rod

Not much to report at this stage. Still haven't been on the road (but will be in two week's time.) So far the batteries have pretty much been on Float charge as we haven't even been running the 'fridge. I'll let you know how they are going after a couple of weeks on the road. In the meantime, I have changed all of the globes (fluoro and halogen) inside the van to LEDs and will be getting LED replacements for the outside lights when we get to Perth.

Cheers

Russ.

[mark and maxine]

thanks everybody for the info

I don't have to do anything untill may next year,We are going across the top (cairns to Broome but off the beaten tracks and back home through Alice Springs 3 months approx)

I will be looking out for your reports on how your batteries are going.

We have a plasmatronics 60A charger which can be reprogrammed for p04 batteries but we need a new charger

looking forward to your feedback.

might see some of you Australia day weekend

Mark

[RussnSue]

thanks everybody for the info

I don't have to do anything untill may next year,We are going across the top (cairns to Broome but off the beaten tracks and back home through Alice Springs 3 months approx)

I will be looking out for your reports on how your batteries are going.

We have a plasmatronics 60A charger which can be reprogrammed for p04 batteries but we need a new charger

looking forward to your feedback.

might see some of you Australia day weekend

Mark

Hi Mark

If you are going to reprogramme your Plasmatronics regulator, the image (included) has the settings you will need.

Cheers

Russ

[John and Ann]

Hi Russ,

Well I'm about to bite the bullet so to speak and dash off to EV Works to pick up some LiFePO4 batteries, undecided whether I do three or four at this stage. I'm doing everything I can to avoid having to buy a new vehicle.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Did you install a low voltage cutout device in the battery circuit as when talking to Tim from EV Works this afternoon it seemed to be the only thing he seemed concerned about when I asked whether I needed to consider full blown battery management modules as I've seen used in the Kimberley Caravan implementation?
2. Where did you relocate your batteries to. I'm toying with the idea of under the van between the axle groups or under the lounge near the RH wheel arch, but, I would have to relocate the pressure pump accumulators that live there?

I was thinking that I could use the alarm output of the Xantrax Link Lite to trigger an easily configurable low voltage cutout. Have you bothered or do you rely on your own management of the system, the downside of installing a set low voltage cutout is that if you hit the limit, no power, may be good for battery life but perhaps not practical from a user perspective.

Thanks in advance.

John

[RussnSue]

Hi John, your questions and my replies:

Did you install a low voltage cutout device in the battery circuit as when talking to Tim from EV Works this afternoon it seemed to be the only thing he seemed concerned about when I asked whether I needed to consider full blown battery management modules as I've seen used in the Kimberley Caravan implementation?

I haven't bothered with a low voltage cutout because Sue and I are living in the van and I can monitor the status easily. I have reached a stage where I can pretty much tell how much current I will use on any given day and how much capacity I have in the batteries. If I were to have a low voltage cutout, I would utilise the LV alarm and switching capacity of my Plasmatronics reg. in order to switch a relay that would disconnect the batteries. As you said, it would be very easy to configure. I would set the LV cutout to 13.1 Volts. This seems strange, but if you look at the graph for the output of these Lithium batteries, they deliver most of their capacity at 13.2 Volts, regardless of load current. They then drop to 13.1 Volts when they are at a DOD of between 70% and 80%, which is as low as I would want to go. Since I installed my batteries I have never seen the voltage drop to 13.1 Volts, so I am operating within my self-imposed specification.

In so far as battery management is concerned, I have set up my Plasmatronics reg. to very critical limits for Boost, Absorbtion and Float. For example, I only boost to 14.1 Volts ( I have raised this by 0.1 of a Volt from 14.0 Volts, since I published the table in a previous post.) I only have absorbtion for thirty minutes at 13.9 Volts and I float at 13.6 Volts. I would love to float at 13.65 Volts but my reg. doesn't do two decimal places.

Where did you relocate your batteries to.

We have a cafe lounge and I have located the four lithium packs in the space under the rearmost lounge. They fit very well. I was going to go to all sorts of extremes to tie them down, but in the end, settled on packing them in with some old blankets that I had. They aren't going anywhere. Naturally, this has the advantage of putting all of the weight behind the axles. Effectively I have taken 160 Kg off the ball by removing the AGMs and a further 60 Kg off by putting the LiFePO4 batteries behind the axles, a net reduction in ball-weight of 220 Kg. Obviously, the overall weight saving is just 100 Kg, but that is not to be sneezed at!

I'm toying with the idea of under the van between the axle groups or under the lounge near the RH wheel arch, but, I would have to relocate the pressure pump accumulators that live there. Yes. A good idea. Anywhere behind the axles is good (assuming that you have the same ball-weight issues as I had.....) See above notes.

I was thinking that I could use the alarm output of the Xantrax Link Lite to trigger an easily configurable low voltage cutout. Have you bothered or do you rely on your own management of the system, the downside of installing a set low voltage cutout is that if you hit the limit, no power, may be good for battery life but perhaps not practical from a user perspective.

This is entirely your call. What you propose to do will work, but at the risk of, say, cutting off the fridge without realising it. If you monitor your systems closely I am sure that you will get a "feel" for yours and you will be able to manage your power use accordingly. So far, we have not had to go into a power-rationing scenario, although we came within half a day of having to do so once. I have since permanently mounted a fifth solar panel on the roof of the van (I have had it for a few years and was lugging it around on the rear-bar of the van and using it as a point-and-shoot panel if needed) and this, combined with the fact that we have four x 90 AH LiFePO4 batteries, has improved our situation even more. I struggle to think of a scenario where I would run out of power.

Thanks in advance.

John

Cheers

Russ

[John and Ann]

Thanks Russ,

Greatly appreciated, now to tackle the job.

Safe travels...

John